1 00:00:02,029 --> 00:00:12,570 [Music] 2 00:00:18,670 --> 00:00:15,850 the planets puppet-masters although sure 3 00:00:21,339 --> 00:00:18,680 you have a plan it's clearly maybe 4 00:00:24,279 --> 00:00:21,349 something there beyond the realm of man 5 00:00:27,429 --> 00:00:24,289 until we thoroughly tested every last 6 00:00:33,009 --> 00:00:27,439 pose just did you find the mole you 7 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:33,019 think you know much you really do where 8 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:39,340 we know the lying to us just don't know 9 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:44,730 what to green where would we be without 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:01:00,240 [Music] 11 00:01:06,219 --> 00:01:03,640 all right higher side Cheddar's if you 12 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:06,229 ask me the best models for reality are 13 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:08,150 ones that put consciousness center stage 14 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:10,010 and acknowledge that this energy is not 15 00:01:14,890 --> 00:01:12,560 only a human quality but something that 16 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:14,900 radiates from all life plants animals 17 00:01:19,270 --> 00:01:17,450 and otherwise in Western societies world 18 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:19,280 view that non-human life forms are just 19 00:01:23,889 --> 00:01:21,530 meat robots running instinctual programs 20 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:23,899 has become the justification for a whole 21 00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:26,690 lot of cruelty destruction and sometimes 22 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:29,300 even eradication yet we are in a small 23 00:01:33,850 --> 00:01:31,280 sliver of time and space in which our 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:33,860 isolation has made us cold and ignorant 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:36,170 not just in regards to the importance of 26 00:01:40,090 --> 00:01:37,850 nature and the power of consciousness 27 00:01:41,859 --> 00:01:40,100 but of course the usefulness of magic as 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:41,869 well so today we're going to talk about 29 00:01:46,719 --> 00:01:44,450 animal magic totems and occult areas 30 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:46,729 we've yet to fully explore because these 31 00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:48,740 traditions go back as far as time itself 32 00:01:52,990 --> 00:01:50,720 but are completely taken for granted 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:53,000 today ironically within an empire that 34 00:01:57,790 --> 00:01:54,890 still invokes the bald eagle as its 35 00:01:59,620 --> 00:01:57,800 primary symbol however these values live 36 00:02:01,660 --> 00:01:59,630 on in indigenous cultures we've yet to 37 00:02:03,639 --> 00:02:01,670 disrupt the pagan communities that still 38 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:03,649 practice the old ways and they're 39 00:02:07,359 --> 00:02:05,450 returning under the guidance of teachers 40 00:02:09,999 --> 00:02:07,369 like today's guest lupa green wolf 41 00:02:11,980 --> 00:02:10,009 lupa is a naturalist neo-pagan and 42 00:02:13,089 --> 00:02:11,990 ritual tool making artists living in the 43 00:02:15,100 --> 00:02:13,099 Pacific Northwest 44 00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:15,110 she's the architect and creator of the 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:17,120 Tarot of bones as well as the author of 46 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:19,130 several great books on these subjects 47 00:02:24,699 --> 00:02:21,620 such as Fang and fur blood and bone a 48 00:02:26,740 --> 00:02:24,709 primal guide animal magic skin spirits 49 00:02:29,830 --> 00:02:26,750 animal parts and spiritual and magical 50 00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:29,840 practice and natural spirituality from 51 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:32,060 the ground up connect with totems in 52 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:34,610 your ecosystem here to bring us back to 53 00:02:38,589 --> 00:02:36,950 nature school asan animal magic can help 54 00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:38,599 us connect with the totem you won't find 55 00:02:43,809 --> 00:02:41,209 on a smartphone screen an ambassador of 56 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:43,819 animal spirits professor of neo-paganism 57 00:02:47,170 --> 00:02:45,470 and a master of her domain 58 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:47,180 lupa green wolf welcome to the higher 59 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:50,270 side hey thank you so much it's good to 60 00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:50,810 be here 61 00:02:54,910 --> 00:02:53,120 yeah I'm really excited we could do this 62 00:02:57,130 --> 00:02:54,920 I think it's gonna be a lot of fun I do 63 00:03:00,190 --> 00:02:57,140 Q I've always been really interested in 64 00:03:01,839 --> 00:03:00,200 animals and more recently magic so it's 65 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:01,849 going to be great to explore where they 66 00:03:05,809 --> 00:03:03,870 intersect I guess to kick this off 67 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:05,819 maybe you can tell us a bit about your 68 00:03:10,130 --> 00:03:07,920 particular flavor of magic and how you 69 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:10,140 got into it because we talked to Kaos 70 00:03:15,170 --> 00:03:12,510 magicians astrologers traditional 71 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:15,180 Solomonic magicians even dello mites and 72 00:03:18,979 --> 00:03:17,430 masons on occasion but I think people 73 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:18,989 will be a little less familiar with 74 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:22,470 terms like neo-pagan and totemic magic 75 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:24,450 so give us a little bit background on 76 00:03:31,069 --> 00:03:28,049 you all right so I'm kind of an 77 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:31,079 interesting case I've been pagan for a 78 00:03:36,759 --> 00:03:33,480 little over two decades and my PAP has 79 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:36,769 taken me and some really unusual 80 00:03:42,110 --> 00:03:38,970 directions or but at least it's been a 81 00:03:45,110 --> 00:03:42,120 bit of a winding path so I started out 82 00:03:47,839 --> 00:03:45,120 with sort of generic Wicca flavored 83 00:03:51,259 --> 00:03:47,849 paganism by way of Scott Cunningham who 84 00:03:53,869 --> 00:03:51,269 is a pretty well-known author he wrote 85 00:03:55,610 --> 00:03:53,879 some classic books like Wicca guide for 86 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:55,620 the solitary practitioner and so forth a 87 00:04:01,789 --> 00:03:58,290 lot of people especially in the 90s cut 88 00:04:03,860 --> 00:04:01,799 their teeth on his works so I spent a 89 00:04:06,289 --> 00:04:03,870 few years doing that thing and then I 90 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:06,299 discovered chaos magic in the early 91 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:09,209 2000s and latched on to that for a few 92 00:04:13,849 --> 00:04:12,030 years and then for a number of years 93 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:13,859 I basically was working towards trying 94 00:04:20,210 --> 00:04:18,090 to create a sort of neo shamanic path 95 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:20,220 using all the various things that I had 96 00:04:26,089 --> 00:04:22,289 discovered and learned and put together 97 00:04:29,750 --> 00:04:26,099 over the years and the thing that I 98 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:29,760 found as I was trying to create this 99 00:04:36,350 --> 00:04:32,910 formalized path with you know rituals 100 00:04:38,689 --> 00:04:36,360 and holidays and devotions and practices 101 00:04:41,210 --> 00:04:38,699 and all that and you know all this dogma 102 00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:41,220 the more I found that it took me away 103 00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:43,889 from the things that I really found 104 00:04:49,969 --> 00:04:47,520 sacred which were you know actual nature 105 00:04:52,370 --> 00:04:49,979 itself you know physical nature being 106 00:04:55,010 --> 00:04:52,380 out in you know the woods and the fields 107 00:04:57,050 --> 00:04:55,020 and engaging with the world on a 108 00:05:00,730 --> 00:04:57,060 one-to-one level I was really getting 109 00:05:04,879 --> 00:05:00,740 distracted by the abstractions and the 110 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:04,889 symbolism that are so prevalent in 111 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:06,570 paganism and which I was trying to latch 112 00:05:13,370 --> 00:05:10,050 on to pretty heavily and so I finally a 113 00:05:15,830 --> 00:05:13,380 few years ago I just said fine I'm done 114 00:05:17,180 --> 00:05:15,840 with this I'm going to strip everything 115 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:17,190 down and get back 116 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:21,000 to the very very basics of what has 117 00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:22,710 fascinated me since I was a very young 118 00:05:27,380 --> 00:05:24,830 child and that's being outside and 119 00:05:29,810 --> 00:05:27,390 learning about the animals and the 120 00:05:33,530 --> 00:05:29,820 plants and the fungi and everything else 121 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:33,540 in an ecosystem and that's where I found 122 00:05:37,190 --> 00:05:35,910 the most inspiration throughout my 123 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:37,200 lifetime and that's what I'm going to 124 00:05:43,850 --> 00:05:41,910 keep myself focused on so to me as a 125 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:43,860 neo-pagan as opposed to an indigenous 126 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:47,370 practitioner totems you know I'm not 127 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:48,930 Native American I don't have any 128 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:51,870 background in that so what I practice is 129 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:54,330 very different from what put me from an 130 00:05:59,800 --> 00:05:56,070 indigenous community to practice but to 131 00:06:03,230 --> 00:05:59,810 me a totem is an archetypal being that 132 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:03,240 embodies all the qualities of a given 133 00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:07,800 species so for example I don't just work 134 00:06:11,590 --> 00:06:09,360 with bear because there are eight 135 00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:11,600 different bear species on a planet and 136 00:06:17,030 --> 00:06:14,460 you know polar bear is a very very 137 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:17,040 different being from Sun Bear and most 138 00:06:19,850 --> 00:06:18,180 people when they think bear they're 139 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:19,860 thinking like you know grizzly bear and 140 00:06:25,220 --> 00:06:21,720 they don't think of the things that make 141 00:06:27,350 --> 00:06:25,230 each of these species unique so a lot of 142 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:27,360 my practice is very much about working 143 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:28,890 with the totems of individual species 144 00:06:34,150 --> 00:06:31,710 the other thing and I really really want 145 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:34,160 to emphasize this is that as a 146 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:37,440 naturalist pagan I don't really believe 147 00:06:42,380 --> 00:06:40,110 in the supernatural per se anymore I 148 00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:42,390 think that things have natural 149 00:06:49,940 --> 00:06:46,880 explanations and rather than trying to 150 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:49,950 prove that all this stuff exists outside 151 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:52,890 of my own consciousness I am perfectly 152 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:54,930 happy with the fact that right now all 153 00:07:00,830 --> 00:06:56,910 the evidence points to all these being 154 00:07:05,150 --> 00:07:00,840 existing within the highly complex and 155 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:05,160 beautiful terrain that is my conscious 156 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:06,750 mind and various levels of my 157 00:07:11,930 --> 00:07:08,310 consciousness if I find evidence 158 00:07:13,340 --> 00:07:11,940 otherwise later awesome but I want 159 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:13,350 listeners to understand that you don't 160 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:15,510 have to literally believe in all these 161 00:07:19,790 --> 00:07:17,370 things in order to work with totems and 162 00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:19,800 spirits and so forth you can also take a 163 00:07:24,740 --> 00:07:22,830 completely symbolic perspective but you 164 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:24,750 can also take it literally if that's you 165 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:27,390 know what you choose so I want people to 166 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:29,130 understand that what I say here is not 167 00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:30,960 Holy Writ and you're welcome 168 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:34,080 to take and use as much of it as you 169 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:35,970 find useful and if there's stuff that 170 00:07:40,580 --> 00:07:37,470 just isn't useful to you great you know 171 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:40,590 leave that by the wayside mm-hmm well I 172 00:07:44,659 --> 00:07:42,240 think that's a great breakdown and of 173 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:44,669 course I'm reminded of lone Milotic it's 174 00:07:49,249 --> 00:07:46,530 book it's all in your head you just have 175 00:07:52,070 --> 00:07:49,259 no idea how big your head is and just 176 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:52,080 that idea that all of reality could be 177 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:54,090 are in our head we really don't have a 178 00:07:58,219 --> 00:07:56,310 good proper model of consciousness 179 00:08:00,379 --> 00:07:58,229 interacting with reality when it comes 180 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:00,389 to the mainstream you know you have to 181 00:08:04,070 --> 00:08:01,889 go to these alternative places where 182 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:04,080 they even recognize consciousness let 183 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:07,440 alone how powerful it might be so I 184 00:08:13,490 --> 00:08:09,930 think that's really interesting ya know 185 00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:13,500 and I think that's a really especially 186 00:08:18,249 --> 00:08:15,060 in paganism in the last several years 187 00:08:21,770 --> 00:08:18,259 there's been this real push to try to 188 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:21,780 scientifically validate people's beliefs 189 00:08:26,529 --> 00:08:24,210 you know we've spent a lot of time being 190 00:08:29,659 --> 00:08:26,539 told oh we're crazy because you know 191 00:08:31,969 --> 00:08:29,669 many pagans believe in spirits and magic 192 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:31,979 and so forth and oh that's what's crazy 193 00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:34,770 talk and it's you know people in general 194 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:36,750 have a whole bunch of beliefs of all 195 00:08:41,990 --> 00:08:39,110 different sorts that can't really be 196 00:08:45,250 --> 00:08:42,000 scientifically validated but I think 197 00:08:48,230 --> 00:08:45,260 sometimes we've looked to some of the 198 00:08:51,889 --> 00:08:48,240 you know sort of more experimental ends 199 00:08:53,630 --> 00:08:51,899 of physics and so forth to try to give 200 00:08:56,030 --> 00:08:53,640 ourselves some kind of validity in the 201 00:08:58,490 --> 00:08:56,040 world because just saying hey I believe 202 00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:58,500 this doesn't seem to work for everybody 203 00:09:04,510 --> 00:09:00,720 the problem with that of course is that 204 00:09:07,910 --> 00:09:04,520 we then take little bits and pieces of 205 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:07,920 science that sound good and we try and 206 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:12,570 shoehorn them into our beliefs in ways 207 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:14,190 that really aren't appropriate for 208 00:09:22,069 --> 00:09:18,510 example a couple of years ago I read a 209 00:09:25,790 --> 00:09:22,079 blog post by a woman who was claiming 210 00:09:28,010 --> 00:09:25,800 that piezoelectricity was what made 211 00:09:31,210 --> 00:09:28,020 crystals do their thing 212 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:31,220 now piezoelectricity is a very specific 213 00:09:39,019 --> 00:09:35,430 quality basically if you take a quartz 214 00:09:41,930 --> 00:09:39,029 crystal and you apply a little electric 215 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:41,940 shock to it it will vibrate and it 216 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:43,890 vibrates at a very specific frequency 217 00:09:48,030 --> 00:09:44,889 and this is a 218 00:09:51,929 --> 00:09:48,040 vibration that can be measured and if 219 00:09:55,049 --> 00:09:51,939 you strike that quartz crystal you know 220 00:09:58,019 --> 00:09:55,059 give it a physical blow it will create a 221 00:09:59,729 --> 00:09:58,029 tiny amount of electricity 222 00:10:02,340 --> 00:09:59,739 so it's you know either an electrical to 223 00:10:04,530 --> 00:10:02,350 a mechanical shift or mechanical to 224 00:10:06,539 --> 00:10:04,540 electrical and this is actually what 225 00:10:08,609 --> 00:10:06,549 makes quartz watches work because what 226 00:10:10,409 --> 00:10:08,619 happens is there's a teeny tiny quartz 227 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:10,419 crystal inside your quartz watch and 228 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:13,929 when the battery lets off a tiny 229 00:10:16,979 --> 00:10:14,980 electric spark 230 00:10:19,769 --> 00:10:16,989 it makes the crystal vibrate and that's 231 00:10:21,539 --> 00:10:19,779 what moves the second hand so this is 232 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:21,549 very specific it's not that this quartz 233 00:10:26,939 --> 00:10:24,040 crystal is constantly emanating energy 234 00:10:28,650 --> 00:10:26,949 it has to be affected by either the 235 00:10:30,479 --> 00:10:28,660 electrical impulse or the mechanical 236 00:10:32,429 --> 00:10:30,489 impulse well this person was basically 237 00:10:34,019 --> 00:10:32,439 saying oh yeah piezoelectricity is the 238 00:10:36,419 --> 00:10:34,029 thing that makes quartz crystals give 239 00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:36,429 off super magical energy all the time 240 00:10:42,359 --> 00:10:40,720 and I basically wrote a blog post 241 00:10:44,309 --> 00:10:42,369 talking about how no that's really not 242 00:10:47,429 --> 00:10:44,319 the case and can we please stop abusing 243 00:10:49,259 --> 00:10:47,439 science hey like I said I recognize that 244 00:10:52,309 --> 00:10:49,269 we really really really really want to 245 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:52,319 validate our belief but I don't think 246 00:10:58,289 --> 00:10:55,809 misusing what scientific data we do have 247 00:11:01,019 --> 00:10:58,299 is going to help us either in 248 00:11:03,749 --> 00:11:01,029 understanding what we're doing or in 249 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:03,759 making ourselves look more valid so I 250 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:05,980 think we really need to be comfortable 251 00:11:09,689 --> 00:11:08,350 with the possibility that like you said 252 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:09,699 you know we don't know how big our 253 00:11:15,689 --> 00:11:12,569 brains are the mind is a really 254 00:11:18,119 --> 00:11:15,699 fabulously complex place and I think 255 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:18,129 it's a really amazing playground to 256 00:11:23,159 --> 00:11:20,470 explore both on spiritual and other 257 00:11:25,079 --> 00:11:23,169 levels well said I think that's a great 258 00:11:28,229 --> 00:11:25,089 example I love a good data based 259 00:11:31,079 --> 00:11:28,239 argument rather than one that's just 260 00:11:32,729 --> 00:11:31,089 emotional or wishful thinking and it is 261 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:32,739 really interesting that we do see a high 262 00:11:37,409 --> 00:11:35,169 level of consistency of ideas when it 263 00:11:39,569 --> 00:11:37,419 comes to indigenous cultures in these 264 00:11:41,819 --> 00:11:39,579 types of realms and the respect for 265 00:11:44,369 --> 00:11:41,829 nature respect for animals and the type 266 00:11:46,049 --> 00:11:44,379 of practices they engage in and we're 267 00:11:48,629 --> 00:11:46,059 obviously pretty sure they didn't have 268 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:48,639 any contact with each other so it seems 269 00:11:54,239 --> 00:11:51,689 like some of this is the kind of natural 270 00:11:58,410 --> 00:11:54,249 conclusions people might come to without 271 00:12:00,030 --> 00:11:58,420 the imposing Western structure but I 272 00:12:01,949 --> 00:12:00,040 you think anyone who has pets has 273 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:01,959 probably really wanted to get into their 274 00:12:07,379 --> 00:12:03,850 heads or at least recognizes that 275 00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:07,389 animals seem to be more aware and lucid 276 00:12:12,210 --> 00:12:08,649 than we give them credit for I've 277 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:12,220 watched my pets dream quite a bit I also 278 00:12:17,069 --> 00:12:13,930 sometimes wonder if my cats can see 279 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:17,079 spirits based on how they act but I'm 280 00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:18,970 curious just generally how you fold 281 00:12:23,879 --> 00:12:21,790 plant and animal consciousness into your 282 00:12:27,300 --> 00:12:23,889 worldview how do you see these non-human 283 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:27,310 persons experiencing the world there's a 284 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:30,160 wonderful quote by Henry Beston that I 285 00:12:36,540 --> 00:12:33,180 absolutely love and it goes like this 286 00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,550 we need another and a wiser and perhaps 287 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:39,360 a more mystical concept of animals 288 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:42,370 remote from Universal nature and living 289 00:12:46,829 --> 00:12:44,680 by complicated artifice man in 290 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:46,839 Civilization surveys the creatures 291 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:48,850 through the glass of his knowledge and 292 00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:51,130 sees thereby a feather magnified and the 293 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:52,630 whole image in Distortion 294 00:12:57,420 --> 00:12:54,850 we patronize them for their 295 00:12:59,579 --> 00:12:57,430 incompleteness for their tragic fate of 296 00:13:04,980 --> 00:12:59,589 having taken form so far below ourselves 297 00:13:07,079 --> 00:13:04,990 and therein we err and greatly err for 298 00:13:10,019 --> 00:13:07,089 the animal shall not be measured by man 299 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:10,029 in a world older and more complete than 300 00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:12,310 ours they move finished and complete 301 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:14,769 gifted with extensions of the senses we 302 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:17,170 have lost or never attained living By 303 00:13:22,889 --> 00:13:20,110 Voices we shall never hear they are not 304 00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:22,899 brethren they are not underlings they 305 00:13:27,769 --> 00:13:25,120 are other nations caught with ourselves 306 00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:27,779 in the net of life and time fellow 307 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:30,760 prisoners of the splendor and travail of 308 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:35,529 the earth and I really love that quote 309 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:39,790 because we tend to be we tend to be 310 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:43,240 exceedingly anthropocentric we are very 311 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:45,910 human centered and that's even when we 312 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:48,760 mean well one of the things that we 313 00:13:53,790 --> 00:13:51,910 really have to keep in mind when we're 314 00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:53,800 dealing with other species of animal 315 00:13:58,199 --> 00:13:55,449 because we ourselves are animal we are 316 00:14:00,990 --> 00:13:58,209 Homo sapiens sapiens we are the only 317 00:14:03,090 --> 00:14:01,000 remaining human ape you know yeah we 318 00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:03,100 have big brains we have opposable thumbs 319 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:06,160 we walk upright but we're still eight so 320 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:10,810 we tend to really try to shove other 321 00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:12,310 animals into 322 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:15,550 to our way of seeing the world so 323 00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:18,970 whether we're judging wolves and sheep 324 00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:23,220 by you know how useful they are to us or 325 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:26,860 when we misinterpret an animal's 326 00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:29,350 behavior by anthropomorphizing it by 327 00:14:34,650 --> 00:14:31,990 saying oh that dog is showing its teeth 328 00:14:38,910 --> 00:14:34,660 that means it must be happy there's a 329 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:38,920 lot of videos online of animals doing 330 00:14:46,190 --> 00:14:42,640 various actions that are actually pretty 331 00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,200 serious signs of stress and unhappiness 332 00:14:53,490 --> 00:14:49,600 that we misinterpret as cute I think the 333 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:53,500 one most glaring examples is there's a 334 00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:56,290 video of an animal called a slow loris 335 00:15:01,980 --> 00:14:58,690 that's the kind of very primitive 336 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:01,990 primate and they have these sort of 337 00:15:05,970 --> 00:15:04,810 raccoon looking spots over the eyes and 338 00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:05,980 little bitty ears they kind of look like 339 00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:09,160 little teddy bears and there's this 340 00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,070 video of this guy sort of tickling this 341 00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:15,279 animal's ribs and this is an animal you 342 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:16,960 can hold in your lap at the size of the 343 00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,830 only be a large cat and as this person 344 00:15:27,390 --> 00:15:23,440 is tickling this animal with lorises 345 00:15:28,980 --> 00:15:27,400 ribs it's putting its hands up and the 346 00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,990 you know the caption of course on all 347 00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:30,880 those Facebook pages and stuff is like 348 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:33,880 oh look it's so cute it's being tickled 349 00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:37,630 aw and two of the things that people a 350 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:40,720 lot of people didn't get is that a that 351 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:42,760 putting the the hands up thing and 352 00:15:47,070 --> 00:15:45,310 displaying the claws is actually a fear 353 00:15:51,630 --> 00:15:47,080 and threat display on the part of that 354 00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:51,640 animal also that loris almost certainly 355 00:15:58,920 --> 00:15:55,000 had its fangs removed because they have 356 00:16:02,460 --> 00:15:58,930 canine teeth and slow lorises in the pet 357 00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:02,470 trade have their canine teeth yanked out 358 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:03,760 because they had they're actually 359 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:06,040 slightly venomous and also because they 360 00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:08,170 can deliver a pretty powerful bite if 361 00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:10,600 they want to so this is an animal that's 362 00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,220 already been subjected to a great amount 363 00:16:17,660 --> 00:16:15,279 of cruelty and has had its main form of 364 00:16:21,270 --> 00:16:17,670 defense removed and is now being 365 00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:21,280 subjected to greater stress and torment 366 00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:23,470 for the enjoyment of millions of people 367 00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:26,200 on YouTube and so we get that with 368 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,020 Horace's we get that with canine body 369 00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:31,600 you know body language and behavior we 370 00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:34,180 get that with feline body language and 371 00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:35,740 behavior or horses I mean pretty much 372 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:38,980 anything there are so many examples 373 00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:42,010 online I can't think about it of people 374 00:16:47,370 --> 00:16:45,280 basically trying to say well that animal 375 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:47,380 is doing a thing like a human does so it 376 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:49,570 must be experiencing the same feelings 377 00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:50,820 and that's really not what's happening 378 00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:54,550 so it's not just a matter of you know 379 00:16:59,460 --> 00:16:57,430 hey we need to not value animals based 380 00:17:01,470 --> 00:16:59,470 just on whether we like them or not you 381 00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:01,480 know gosh I hate snakes 382 00:17:05,130 --> 00:17:03,340 so snakes are bad but you know I really 383 00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:05,140 love puppies you know I think it's 384 00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:06,820 really important that we value both the 385 00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:08,680 snakes and the puppies whether we like 386 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:10,000 them or not I'm not a huge fan of 387 00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:15,640 mosquitos but I really value them both 388 00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:18,520 as insects that have persisted as a 389 00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,800 group for millions and millions of years 390 00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:22,240 and have really cut out a niche for 391 00:17:24,449 --> 00:17:22,990 themselves 392 00:17:27,740 --> 00:17:24,459 and also because they're really 393 00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:27,750 important to ecosystems today both as 394 00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:31,030 periods of their own DNA and also food 395 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:32,560 sources for other animals you know 396 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:34,570 they're really integral if we didn't 397 00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:36,370 have mosquitoes there'd be a lot more 398 00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,220 hungry bats out there but it's also 399 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:41,200 important as I said especially with 400 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:42,970 people who really really really really 401 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:45,930 really want to connect with their pets 402 00:17:52,530 --> 00:17:48,310 it's really important that we take that 403 00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:52,540 step back and learn about canine or 404 00:17:58,170 --> 00:17:55,600 feline or avian behavior on its own 405 00:18:00,210 --> 00:17:58,180 merits as opposed to just making 406 00:18:02,930 --> 00:18:00,220 assumptions about what that animals 407 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:02,940 doing based on what we think it's doing 408 00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:05,890 well said and I know exactly what you're 409 00:18:09,780 --> 00:18:07,960 talking about with that loris example 410 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:09,790 I've seen the video for people who have 411 00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:12,940 and it is a very adorable creature but 412 00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:15,310 then when you realize that it's actually 413 00:18:19,230 --> 00:18:17,230 scared and frightened and you see all 414 00:18:21,630 --> 00:18:19,240 the damage done in the animal trade it 415 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:21,640 is like incredibly depressing when that 416 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:23,290 switch hits and you're like oh god 417 00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:26,140 here's humanity just doing what humanity 418 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:30,040 does and it's just really sad but I 419 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:30,730 guess how do we 420 00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:33,610 better resist that temptation or get 421 00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:36,190 more into the animals mindset when human 422 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:38,590 context is all we have I guess magic 423 00:18:44,129 --> 00:18:40,090 helps well 424 00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:44,139 yes and no magic is this really really 425 00:18:48,899 --> 00:18:46,119 subjective thing that we put a lot of 426 00:18:51,239 --> 00:18:48,909 ourselves into I think it's really 427 00:18:53,249 --> 00:18:51,249 important to do things like meditation 428 00:18:56,369 --> 00:18:53,259 you know I really love guided meditation 429 00:18:57,959 --> 00:18:56,379 as a general tool just because it's a 430 00:19:02,009 --> 00:18:57,969 great way to get out of your own head 431 00:19:05,639 --> 00:19:02,019 it's a really wonderful way to imagine 432 00:19:09,109 --> 00:19:05,649 what it might be like to be you know for 433 00:19:12,239 --> 00:19:09,119 example a wolf or a raven or a 434 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:12,249 mudskipper or any of a number of other 435 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:14,769 animals I've done so many meditations 436 00:19:20,669 --> 00:19:17,769 over the years with various totems where 437 00:19:23,579 --> 00:19:20,679 they've shown me what it's like to be 438 00:19:25,709 --> 00:19:23,589 that particular animal and I think it's 439 00:19:28,859 --> 00:19:25,719 really important to be able to get out 440 00:19:32,129 --> 00:19:28,869 of our own heads for a while and explore 441 00:19:35,129 --> 00:19:32,139 you know to have more empathy for other 442 00:19:39,209 --> 00:19:35,139 beings the big caution that I would give 443 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:39,219 is that even when we are working and 444 00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:41,049 again this is kind of where I'm really 445 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:42,609 caution the whole you know this made us 446 00:19:47,729 --> 00:19:45,070 be in our own heads thing even our own 447 00:19:51,209 --> 00:19:47,739 magic and spirituality even animal-based 448 00:19:54,450 --> 00:19:51,219 is still very heavily informed by our 449 00:19:56,369 --> 00:19:54,460 biases as humans because there's only so 450 00:19:59,339 --> 00:19:56,379 much that you realistically can get out 451 00:20:01,499 --> 00:19:59,349 of your own head and perception you know 452 00:20:04,459 --> 00:20:01,509 you're still interpreting things based 453 00:20:07,619 --> 00:20:04,469 on however many years you've spent as a 454 00:20:10,139 --> 00:20:07,629 human being with all of its various 455 00:20:14,639 --> 00:20:10,149 conditionings and neurological patterns 456 00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:14,649 and so forth so yes go and do you know 457 00:20:21,209 --> 00:20:18,849 meditations yes go and explore other 458 00:20:26,159 --> 00:20:21,219 levels of consciousness to the best of 459 00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:26,169 your ability but also ground that in 460 00:20:32,430 --> 00:20:30,159 actually learning about the animals that 461 00:20:37,049 --> 00:20:32,440 you're working with because the thing is 462 00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:37,059 so 10 acknowledged you know we hang out 463 00:20:42,779 --> 00:20:38,559 I've got like 8000 different thoughts 464 00:20:46,349 --> 00:20:42,789 going on one earng so in Western society 465 00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:46,359 we are probably the most divorced from 466 00:20:52,289 --> 00:20:50,169 the rest of nature of any society out 467 00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:52,299 there and that includes people who claim 468 00:20:57,410 --> 00:20:53,440 to be 469 00:21:01,650 --> 00:20:57,420 close to nature in this community 470 00:21:04,890 --> 00:21:01,660 indigenous communities who whether they 471 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:04,900 still live there traditional ways or 472 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:07,270 whether they have you know shifted some 473 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:09,130 to a more Western way of being or had it 474 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:11,950 forced upon them but the practices and 475 00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:14,170 the beliefs that many indigenous 476 00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:19,780 communities have were forged by people 477 00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:25,780 who spent every single day living very 478 00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:29,140 very close to the rest of nature not 479 00:21:34,530 --> 00:21:31,990 just in a practical level you know we 480 00:21:36,150 --> 00:21:34,540 have to get our food from the land and 481 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:36,160 you know we have to pay attention to the 482 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:38,920 migrations of animals and so forth but 483 00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:42,130 also the more you are around something 484 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:44,260 the more you notice details about it 485 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:47,110 so most of us in the Western world spend 486 00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:49,090 most of our time immersed in a very 487 00:21:58,910 --> 00:21:53,500 human dominated sanitized landscape but 488 00:22:02,850 --> 00:21:58,920 if you spend a lot of time outdoors on a 489 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:02,860 daily basis you just normally start 490 00:22:08,780 --> 00:22:06,010 paying more attention to the animals and 491 00:22:11,220 --> 00:22:08,790 the plants and the weather patterns and 492 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:11,230 stuff that you don't really notice when 493 00:22:17,790 --> 00:22:14,280 you're in a building all the time and so 494 00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:17,800 for us to say something like well I'm 495 00:22:23,970 --> 00:22:21,070 going to work with totems or other 496 00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:23,980 nature spirits we are bringing a very 497 00:22:30,740 --> 00:22:28,060 divorced from nature perspectives you 498 00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:30,750 know unless you are spending every day 499 00:22:38,340 --> 00:22:34,000 spending some time outside and and being 500 00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:38,350 really reliant on the natural world your 501 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,220 experience is going to be different than 502 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:44,320 indigenous people for thousands of years 503 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:46,510 have had traditions that brought them 504 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:49,510 directly in contact with nature so when 505 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:52,090 we go do something like a guided 506 00:22:58,590 --> 00:22:55,050 meditation with for example black bear 507 00:23:02,760 --> 00:22:58,600 the totem black bear we are going to be 508 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:02,770 bringing our general lack of experience 509 00:23:06,790 --> 00:23:05,740 with the environments that black bears 510 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:06,800 are found in 511 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:10,370 to the table so that's going to really 512 00:23:15,610 --> 00:23:13,070 affect how that meditation goes for us 513 00:23:18,670 --> 00:23:15,620 because we don't have the depth of 514 00:23:21,670 --> 00:23:18,680 understanding for the most part of how 515 00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:21,680 that ecosystem works or where the Bears 516 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:25,220 part is in it compared to somebody who 517 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:28,730 observes bears on a daily basis so I 518 00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:31,010 think to the best of our ability you 519 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:32,960 know most of us or even even those of us 520 00:23:38,410 --> 00:23:34,910 who love nature you know I spend as much 521 00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:38,420 time out in it as I can but I still have 522 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:41,360 to do a lot of learning from books and 523 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:44,810 documentaries and classes and so forth 524 00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:47,810 because you know I'm not going to be out 525 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:49,760 in the world out in the natural world 526 00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:52,010 enough to be able to sit and watch a 527 00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:55,840 single bears day-in day-out activities 528 00:24:01,150 --> 00:23:58,250 whereas somebody who's outside every day 529 00:24:03,010 --> 00:24:01,160 in that bears territory it's probably 530 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:03,020 going to have a much better idea of what 531 00:24:06,010 --> 00:24:04,490 that bears daily movements are like 532 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:06,020 because their neighbors with each other 533 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:08,170 do you get what I'm saying with all that 534 00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:10,970 absolutely that makes a lot of sense you 535 00:24:15,490 --> 00:24:12,830 kind of touched on this but my next 536 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:15,500 question for you was gonna be to maybe 537 00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:18,500 get into some more historical context 538 00:24:22,450 --> 00:24:20,840 because divorced like you said is a 539 00:24:23,890 --> 00:24:22,460 pretty perfect term because people 540 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:23,900 forget that even though things like 541 00:24:29,620 --> 00:24:27,050 animal magic are considered weird and 542 00:24:31,420 --> 00:24:29,630 nonsensical in our society that is the 543 00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,430 exception not the rule 544 00:24:35,620 --> 00:24:33,440 and I guess I would ask if you could 545 00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:35,630 tell us a little more about the history 546 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:38,120 of the practices you engage in and just 547 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:39,980 kind of how widespread they've really 548 00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:45,710 been okay so there have been multiple 549 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:48,440 cultures over the history of our species 550 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:51,650 that have had animal based ritual 551 00:24:58,420 --> 00:24:55,360 practices some of these have been 552 00:25:00,700 --> 00:24:58,430 focused primarily on wild animals more 553 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:00,710 agrarian communities have focused more 554 00:25:06,730 --> 00:25:02,570 on their domestic animals as being 555 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:06,740 special some work with both so there's 556 00:25:15,970 --> 00:25:12,170 always been this drive to reconnect with 557 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:15,980 the rest of nature especially ironically 558 00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:18,770 as we become more perceived to be 559 00:25:21,250 --> 00:25:20,150 divorced from the rest of 560 00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:21,260 nature the more we feel we're 561 00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:22,910 disconnected the more I think there's a 562 00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:25,430 desire to reconnect but we don't 563 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:27,320 necessarily know what it is that we want 564 00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:32,090 or how to voice it and so part of what I 565 00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,270 think modern animal magic practitioners 566 00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,480 have been seeking is that reconnection 567 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:41,360 you know we feel on some level that 568 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:44,090 there's something more than you know 569 00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,370 this very human dominated world that we 570 00:25:49,870 --> 00:25:48,320 live in where everything is about us and 571 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:49,880 everything else is shoved into this 572 00:25:54,030 --> 00:25:52,310 little category called nature that ends 573 00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:54,040 up on the back page of the paper 574 00:25:59,460 --> 00:25:56,870 whereas in communities that never really 575 00:26:02,290 --> 00:25:59,470 left nature it's a reaffirmation of 576 00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:02,300 their connections with the rest of the 577 00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:05,840 world I think for people like me it's a 578 00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:10,520 deep desire to find something that has 579 00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:14,960 been deeply lost in our own communities 580 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:18,620 you know as I said I am a European mutt 581 00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:20,840 who grew up in the Midwest US and I'm 582 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:22,550 now in the Pacific Northwest and I was 583 00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:25,490 raised by Catholics and so I didn't 584 00:26:29,890 --> 00:26:27,830 really grow up with this tradition of 585 00:26:33,310 --> 00:26:29,900 feeling connected to the rest of nature 586 00:26:36,460 --> 00:26:33,320 and feeling like the other animals are 587 00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,470 you know my kin even though I may have 588 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:38,720 had ancestors way way way way way back 589 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:42,170 when before you know Catholicism who had 590 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:45,770 similar beliefs and feelings and so I 591 00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:49,850 really feel that you know for a lot of 592 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:53,150 us coming from a Western perspective who 593 00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:55,090 didn't have that indigenous background 594 00:27:02,850 --> 00:26:58,400 we're trying to piece together something 595 00:27:07,570 --> 00:27:02,860 that was lost a long long time ago and 596 00:27:10,830 --> 00:27:07,580 there's the struggle of do we try and 597 00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:10,840 borrow from indigenous communities and 598 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:13,070 navigate the you know harm that 599 00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:15,890 appropriation can do or do we try and 600 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:21,020 forge our own reconnections based on our 601 00:27:28,060 --> 00:27:25,010 own experiences and biases and worldview 602 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:28,070 and so I think that's why there's not 603 00:27:34,269 --> 00:27:30,770 really a single animal magic in the 604 00:27:37,529 --> 00:27:34,279 Western perspectives because 605 00:27:39,849 --> 00:27:37,539 many of us have found different paths to 606 00:27:41,469 --> 00:27:39,859 reforging those connections and also 607 00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:41,479 because we tend to come from a much more 608 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:45,289 individualistic community mm-hmm yeah 609 00:27:49,629 --> 00:27:47,210 there are just a lot of complex 610 00:27:52,109 --> 00:27:49,639 questions and issues of respects that 611 00:27:55,659 --> 00:27:52,119 come into it when you really get into 612 00:27:58,570 --> 00:27:55,669 these topics and I guess you know you 613 00:28:00,820 --> 00:27:58,580 did tell us how you conceptualize totem 614 00:28:03,070 --> 00:28:00,830 animals but how do you separate totems 615 00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:03,080 from other types of spirits is it 616 00:28:09,219 --> 00:28:05,799 something that's just self-evident to a 617 00:28:13,629 --> 00:28:09,229 experienced practitioner well as I said 618 00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:13,639 a totem is an archetypal being that 619 00:28:17,649 --> 00:28:15,919 embodies all the qualities of a given 620 00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:17,659 species so we're not just talking about 621 00:28:23,649 --> 00:28:21,200 an individual brown bear spirit we're 622 00:28:26,139 --> 00:28:23,659 talking about brown bear who is sort of 623 00:28:29,979 --> 00:28:26,149 the for lack of a better term the deity 624 00:28:34,299 --> 00:28:29,989 of all brown bears you know brown bear 625 00:28:37,450 --> 00:28:34,309 watches over every single member of that 626 00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,460 species that has ever existed and is 627 00:28:42,969 --> 00:28:39,440 very much concerned about the protection 628 00:28:45,009 --> 00:28:42,979 and preservation of those animals and so 629 00:28:48,339 --> 00:28:45,019 in working with them for lack of a 630 00:28:51,369 --> 00:28:48,349 better term they just feel bigger and 631 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:51,379 more powerful again more akin to a deity 632 00:28:56,379 --> 00:28:53,710 as opposed to an individual spirit guide 633 00:28:57,639 --> 00:28:56,389 it is subjective and it's kind of one of 634 00:29:00,009 --> 00:28:57,649 the things where you just have to 635 00:29:02,499 --> 00:29:00,019 experience it yourself but it's pretty 636 00:29:05,109 --> 00:29:02,509 unmistakable when it does happen you 637 00:29:06,849 --> 00:29:05,119 know you'll know yeah there's something 638 00:29:09,549 --> 00:29:06,859 different about this particular being 639 00:29:11,499 --> 00:29:09,559 here they're more they're just more does 640 00:29:14,109 --> 00:29:11,509 that make sense absolutely I've heard 641 00:29:15,999 --> 00:29:14,119 them described as Beastmaster entities 642 00:29:17,979 --> 00:29:16,009 which is a term I like that kind of 643 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:17,989 speaks to that same thing mm-hmm 644 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:20,330 yeah and I think that's a really I think 645 00:29:23,259 --> 00:29:21,950 however you want to conceptualize it 646 00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:23,269 that's great I think it's just a matter 647 00:29:29,649 --> 00:29:26,809 of understanding that my totem is not a 648 00:29:32,049 --> 00:29:29,659 white wolf named you know snowflake or 649 00:29:33,489 --> 00:29:32,059 whatever my primary totem and you know 650 00:29:36,849 --> 00:29:33,499 part of the reason that my name is lupa 651 00:29:38,709 --> 00:29:36,859 is gray wolf who watches over all grey 652 00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:38,719 wolves and who is an intermediary 653 00:29:44,289 --> 00:29:42,320 between the species Canis lupus and the 654 00:29:47,410 --> 00:29:44,299 whole rest of the world including humans 655 00:29:50,020 --> 00:29:47,420 and I think that's just so bad 656 00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:50,030 and of course a major question has got 657 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:53,390 to be how can people find their totem 658 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:55,130 animal I guess what can you tell us 659 00:30:00,490 --> 00:29:57,290 about that it's more than just picking a 660 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:00,500 favorite animal right yeah I mean it's 661 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:03,290 again it kind of tends on the person you 662 00:30:11,860 --> 00:30:07,010 know we don't have a long long tradition 663 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:11,870 of coming-of-age rites where you go out 664 00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:14,090 into the into the deep woods or the 665 00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:16,040 deserts or whatever the far out 666 00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:18,020 wilderness happens to be we don't send 667 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:21,350 people out there to find themselves once 668 00:30:26,170 --> 00:30:23,690 they hit puberty or once they become you 669 00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:26,180 know an adult or whatever we you know 670 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:27,830 we're we consider that major threshold 671 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:30,050 you know in fact our you know American 672 00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:31,850 society in particular is seriously 673 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:36,230 lacking in formal rites of passage short 674 00:30:40,780 --> 00:30:38,210 of graduation and getting married and 675 00:30:43,890 --> 00:30:40,790 you know things like that we don't have 676 00:30:46,780 --> 00:30:43,900 a lot of introspective rites of passage 677 00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:46,790 so again it's a matter of really 678 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:50,600 figuring out things as we go along so 679 00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:52,550 there there are a number of ways in 680 00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:55,670 neo-pagan totemism that people try to 681 00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,370 find their totems again take this with a 682 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:00,080 grain of salt because this is speaking 683 00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:02,690 very much for my own biases but I have 684 00:31:06,730 --> 00:31:04,070 ones that I like and I want that I don't 685 00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:06,740 like one of the ones I'm not so crazy 686 00:31:15,130 --> 00:31:11,660 about is oh well I went outside and I 687 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:15,140 saw this Hawk sitting up you know in a 688 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:17,690 tree outside my yard and you know it's 689 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:19,370 been there for the last week and I've 690 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:21,650 seen it every single day that must 691 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:23,570 obviously mean at that Hawk is my totem 692 00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:27,290 and while yeah it's really awesome that 693 00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:29,000 you have this red tailed hawk that's 694 00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,160 been hanging out in your yard it's 695 00:31:36,550 --> 00:31:32,960 probably not because of you it's 696 00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,560 probably because your yard is part of 697 00:31:42,250 --> 00:31:38,960 that a pair of hawks territory and 698 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:42,260 you've just been a knit and you now have 699 00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:44,330 a via neighbors congratulations you 700 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:45,830 should see a reduction in the number of 701 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:48,710 mice in your area and so again that 702 00:31:52,510 --> 00:31:50,690 whole you know I saw this animal it must 703 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:52,520 be something about me is a very human 704 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:54,890 centered selfish way of viewing things 705 00:31:59,170 --> 00:31:57,650 just because an animal runs across the 706 00:32:00,649 --> 00:31:59,180 road in front of you doesn't mean that 707 00:32:02,779 --> 00:32:00,659 it's anything special 708 00:32:04,669 --> 00:32:02,789 it just happens to be that you know 709 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:04,679 maybe there's been an improvement in 710 00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:06,330 habitat in your area and there's more 711 00:32:10,099 --> 00:32:08,820 wildlife which is awesome so it's very 712 00:32:12,019 --> 00:32:10,109 much a whole thing of you know making 713 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:12,029 things about us and I really don't like 714 00:32:16,669 --> 00:32:15,090 that I'm also not a fan of well you know 715 00:32:19,219 --> 00:32:16,679 I saw this animal in my dream and 716 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:19,229 therefore it must be my totem the thing 717 00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:22,289 is our our unconscious mind is a really 718 00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:24,960 crazy place the conscious mind likes 719 00:32:30,379 --> 00:32:28,159 words and concepts and you know very 720 00:32:32,169 --> 00:32:30,389 rational and straightforward ways of 721 00:32:36,049 --> 00:32:32,179 communicating our unconscious mind 722 00:32:37,899 --> 00:32:36,059 really love symbols and weirdness and 723 00:32:42,139 --> 00:32:37,909 when the two of them try to communicate 724 00:32:45,619 --> 00:32:42,149 sometimes it gets really strange because 725 00:32:48,019 --> 00:32:45,629 most of our dreams are just our minds 726 00:32:49,339 --> 00:32:48,029 way of processing the things that happen 727 00:32:53,629 --> 00:32:49,349 to us throughout the day you know our 728 00:32:54,919 --> 00:32:53,639 fears our experiences our excitement you 729 00:32:57,469 --> 00:32:54,929 know it's basically putting everything 730 00:32:58,339 --> 00:32:57,479 away in the giant rolodex in our head so 731 00:33:01,940 --> 00:32:58,349 we can find it later 732 00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:01,950 and so the symbolic unconscious part of 733 00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,289 our mind likes to sometimes pick animals 734 00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:07,200 as a symbol of a thing that's going on 735 00:33:14,899 --> 00:33:09,720 in our head let's take a dog for example 736 00:33:16,129 --> 00:33:14,909 if I dream of a dog for me personally 737 00:33:18,769 --> 00:33:16,139 that's usually a good thing because I 738 00:33:20,690 --> 00:33:18,779 love dogs dogs are awesome and you know 739 00:33:24,229 --> 00:33:20,700 I get to play with a puppy in my dream 740 00:33:26,419 --> 00:33:24,239 but for somebody who is absolutely 741 00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:26,429 terrified of dogs maybe they got bitten 742 00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:28,679 really badly when they were a kid having 743 00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:30,419 a dog in their dream may be a nightmare 744 00:33:37,789 --> 00:33:34,220 so I don't like dream dictionaries 745 00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,799 because there's no universal meaning for 746 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:40,080 symbols and dreams right you know if I 747 00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,210 dream of a dog it's not going to 748 00:33:47,869 --> 00:33:43,919 necessarily be the same reason that you 749 00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,879 dream of a dog makes sense and so I'm 750 00:33:51,889 --> 00:33:49,919 really a big fan of doing your own 751 00:33:53,479 --> 00:33:51,899 personal interpretation figuring out 752 00:33:56,269 --> 00:33:53,489 well why did that animal show up in my 753 00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:56,279 dream and 99 times out of a hundred is 754 00:34:01,639 --> 00:33:59,460 going to be because it was a convenient 755 00:34:03,649 --> 00:34:01,649 symbol for a thing that happened to you 756 00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:03,659 recently or a thing you've been thinking 757 00:34:10,579 --> 00:34:06,720 about that being said with both regards 758 00:34:13,819 --> 00:34:10,589 to dreams and waking animal sightings 759 00:34:14,329 --> 00:34:13,829 if you feel deep deep deep down that 760 00:34:17,479 --> 00:34:14,339 there 761 00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:17,489 is something noteworthy or special about 762 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:19,049 that encounter beyond 763 00:34:23,539 --> 00:34:21,210 oh wow I've never seen that animal 764 00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:23,549 before explore it explore that 765 00:34:30,349 --> 00:34:28,079 possibility one of my favorite ways of 766 00:34:32,839 --> 00:34:30,359 helping people find totems is through 767 00:34:34,849 --> 00:34:32,849 guided meditation I have a very specific 768 00:34:37,129 --> 00:34:34,859 meditation that I use it's kind of 769 00:34:40,309 --> 00:34:37,139 basically the same format that everybody 770 00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:40,319 else uses which is you visualize going 771 00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:43,049 into a tunnel in the ground and when you 772 00:34:47,389 --> 00:34:44,639 come out of the tunnel you find yourself 773 00:34:49,069 --> 00:34:47,399 in a wild natural place I don't tell you 774 00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,079 what that place is because I want your 775 00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:51,599 mind to pick it out and then you explore 776 00:34:55,999 --> 00:34:53,129 that place and hopefully if things go 777 00:34:58,819 --> 00:34:56,009 well your totem shows up it gives you 778 00:35:00,880 --> 00:34:58,829 just enough structure to shift your 779 00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:00,890 consciousness into that meditative 780 00:35:06,349 --> 00:35:04,079 headspace where you can be open to 781 00:35:08,509 --> 00:35:06,359 talking to your totem or totems for that 782 00:35:11,839 --> 00:35:08,519 matter you can have more than one but I 783 00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:11,849 don't like giving people specific quit 784 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:16,440 you know habitats or species because you 785 00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:19,170 know there are so many animal species on 786 00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:21,180 this planet and your totem could be any 787 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:23,369 of them you know it's also a reason I 788 00:35:27,319 --> 00:35:25,170 don't like totem cards because there's 789 00:35:30,289 --> 00:35:27,329 really only so many animals that you can 790 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:30,299 fit in one deck and what if your totem 791 00:35:36,469 --> 00:35:31,890 happens to be an animal that's not in 792 00:35:39,319 --> 00:35:36,479 that deck so I really emphasize guided 793 00:35:42,739 --> 00:35:39,329 meditation as a way of finding totems 794 00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:42,749 just because it is open-ended and you 795 00:35:48,709 --> 00:35:44,700 can use that meditation just to go into 796 00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:48,719 the totem spirit world and play for 797 00:35:53,839 --> 00:35:51,359 example a bobcat runs across the road 798 00:35:55,999 --> 00:35:53,849 and you feel there's something really 799 00:36:00,499 --> 00:35:56,009 really important about that you can go 800 00:36:04,789 --> 00:36:00,509 into a guided meditation specifically to 801 00:36:06,799 --> 00:36:04,799 speak with bobcat the totem and ask well 802 00:36:08,299 --> 00:36:06,809 was there anything to this particular 803 00:36:09,859 --> 00:36:08,309 encounter was that you trying to get in 804 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:09,869 touch with me or did I just happen to 805 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:12,930 have a really rare sighting of this 806 00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:15,450 beautiful wild cat does that make sense 807 00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,150 it does it does and so I guess the next 808 00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:21,119 step let's say you do a meditation you 809 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:23,160 do connect with a totem animal something 810 00:36:27,709 --> 00:36:25,650 becomes clear what comes next how do you 811 00:36:28,220 --> 00:36:27,719 foster that connection and strengthen 812 00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,230 the bond 813 00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:30,560 and what are the benefits of doing so 814 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:32,820 well I mean one of the things you do is 815 00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:35,250 go back and visit on a regular basis you 816 00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:36,300 know just like you would with any other 817 00:36:42,530 --> 00:36:39,990 friend or ally or relationship when I do 818 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:42,540 guided meditations to work with totems 819 00:36:47,329 --> 00:36:44,670 I'm not going deep deep deep into the 820 00:36:49,339 --> 00:36:47,339 spirit realm I'm basically going into 821 00:36:51,859 --> 00:36:49,349 what I perceive as sort of an in-between 822 00:36:52,190 --> 00:36:51,869 place between our world and the spirit 823 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:52,200 world 824 00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:54,570 and you can also think of it as a deep 825 00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:56,670 in-between place between the conscious 826 00:37:00,730 --> 00:36:58,200 mind and the unconscious mind depending 827 00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:00,740 on your perspective and all this and so 828 00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:03,750 it's basically a neutral ground where if 829 00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:05,940 I want to speak with that totem or they 830 00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:07,680 want to speak with me you know it's 831 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:09,000 kinda like having your favorite coffee 832 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:10,410 shop that you go to meet with a friend 833 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:12,470 you know it's like that kind of place 834 00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:15,030 except is bigger and you know that it's 835 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:16,560 a good place that the totem wants to 836 00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:18,690 show you things or explore things with 837 00:37:22,579 --> 00:37:20,940 you you have the space to do that 838 00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,589 or if they want to introduce you to 839 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:24,720 other totems so just going back and 840 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:26,010 visiting and working with them on a 841 00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:28,650 regular basis is one thing another thing 842 00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:30,300 that a lot of people like to do is set 843 00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:33,630 up a small altar or shrine to that totem 844 00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:39,180 in their home and the value of that is 845 00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:41,750 that it gives your conscious mind a 846 00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:45,300 constant reminder of that being and 847 00:37:49,309 --> 00:37:46,950 their importance to you it also shows 848 00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:49,319 that totem that you really want them to 849 00:37:53,660 --> 00:37:50,910 stay around you're basically giving them 850 00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:53,670 their own place in your home this 851 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:56,089 doesn't have to be anything especially 852 00:38:00,109 --> 00:37:58,290 elaborate it can just be a little shelf 853 00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:00,119 on the wall where you maybe have a 854 00:38:04,309 --> 00:38:01,910 couple statues or pictures or other 855 00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:04,319 representations of that totem but it's 856 00:38:08,839 --> 00:38:06,270 important because it shows both them and 857 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:08,849 you so that relationship is important 858 00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:11,130 and then a lot of people will call on 859 00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:13,020 their totems and other guides during 860 00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,230 ritual practices meditations things like 861 00:38:20,420 --> 00:38:18,240 that and it's basically to saying you 862 00:38:21,859 --> 00:38:20,430 know hey you know again you're an 863 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,869 important part of my life I'd like you 864 00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:24,480 to be a part of this even if it's not a 865 00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:27,390 totem for example if I am looking for 866 00:38:33,730 --> 00:38:31,849 work of some sort I tend to really I 867 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:33,740 kind of have my go-to 868 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:36,210 time job hunting or if I'm looking for 869 00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:38,130 another contract or if I'm looking for a 870 00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:39,900 good publishing opportunity or something 871 00:38:45,110 --> 00:38:42,030 I will talk to 872 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:45,120 beaver and I'll talk to river otter or 873 00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:47,130 I'll talk to badger depending on you 874 00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:49,680 know what kind of work it is so I'll 875 00:38:53,660 --> 00:38:51,840 talk to these totems because both beaver 876 00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:53,670 and you know beavers very much about 877 00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,910 work and you know having a good home and 878 00:39:00,860 --> 00:38:58,560 stability and so forth 879 00:39:03,530 --> 00:39:00,870 badger has taught me a lot about 880 00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:03,540 persistence and toughness which is 881 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:04,680 something you really need when you're 882 00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:07,890 job hunting and river otter does 883 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:10,830 everything with play so I want to be 884 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:12,930 able to find stuff that you know I want 885 00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:14,640 to find work to do that I'm going to 886 00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:19,260 enjoy and so I might invite those totems 887 00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:21,960 when I'm doing some kind of a ritual to 888 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:24,840 psych myself up for an interview or when 889 00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:27,930 I'm about to overhaul my resume or 890 00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,880 anything else work-related and I'll ask 891 00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:32,160 for their guidance and their help as 892 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:34,830 much as I'm able to so those are just a 893 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:38,610 few of the ways that we can connect but 894 00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:42,140 I think probably the most important 895 00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:45,390 reason to connect with totems and I 896 00:39:49,970 --> 00:39:46,950 think the one that gets overlooked by 897 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:49,980 far the most you know as I said earlier 898 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:52,050 I mentioned earlier that totems are an 899 00:39:57,940 --> 00:39:55,650 intermediary between their species and 900 00:40:01,340 --> 00:39:57,950 everything else including human and 901 00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:01,350 because humans are having such a drastic 902 00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:03,960 impact on the rest of the world 903 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:06,000 you know the totems are basically 904 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:07,890 incoming to those of us who will listen 905 00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:11,010 and they're trying to get us to pay 906 00:40:13,970 --> 00:40:12,540 attention again you know those of us in 907 00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:13,980 the Western world who are causing the 908 00:40:17,780 --> 00:40:16,020 most trouble you know the totems are 909 00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:17,790 basically casting about trying to get 910 00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,550 somebody from this highly destructive 911 00:40:26,270 --> 00:40:23,520 group of humans to pay attention to them 912 00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:26,280 again unfortunately again because we 913 00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,600 tend to be so selfish and 914 00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:29,880 anthropocentric we're always thinking in 915 00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:31,950 terms of me me me me what can I get out 916 00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:33,780 of it you know what can I learn how can 917 00:40:38,660 --> 00:40:35,940 I be empowered how can I make my life 918 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:38,670 better it's let it set etcetera and the 919 00:40:44,780 --> 00:40:40,170 thing that gets overlooked the most is 920 00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:44,790 how do we give back how do we listen to 921 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:47,220 the totems needs and their desires for 922 00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:49,770 their species and how do we help 923 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:52,200 facilitate that you know people 924 00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:53,850 sometimes like to talk about making 925 00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:55,800 offerings to the various spirits they 926 00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:56,070 were 927 00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,200 with and a lot of times it ends up being 928 00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:00,000 things like well I'm going to leave food 929 00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:02,790 out for animals to help the nature 930 00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:04,620 spirits I'm not sure how that works but 931 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:07,200 you know apparently leaving food out for 932 00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:09,090 the animals is good for nature even 933 00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:10,470 though it promotes those animals 934 00:41:15,470 --> 00:41:13,470 becoming reliant on humans for food and 935 00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:15,480 it's is really a bad idea from an 936 00:41:21,130 --> 00:41:17,940 ecological perspective but really in my 937 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:21,140 experience one of the most important 938 00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:25,130 offerings you can ever make to any 939 00:41:33,260 --> 00:41:29,640 nature-based being is actually working 940 00:41:36,140 --> 00:41:33,270 to help physical nature connected to 941 00:41:38,300 --> 00:41:36,150 that beings for example to help a totem 942 00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:38,310 to make an offering to a totem you do 943 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:41,520 something to help it's physical 944 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:44,970 counterparts whether that volunteering 945 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:48,170 to help improve that species habitat 946 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:51,090 whether it's making a donation to an 947 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:54,450 organization that is working to preserve 948 00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:57,210 that species that's habitat whether it's 949 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:00,420 volunteering with an animal rescue 950 00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:02,970 you know wildlife shelter you know 951 00:42:06,350 --> 00:42:04,260 that's just some of the things you can 952 00:42:11,980 --> 00:42:06,360 do to help those totems you know a big 953 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:11,990 part of my personal practice is not 954 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:14,490 drumming and dancing and things of that 955 00:42:20,690 --> 00:42:17,810 nature it's volunteering with local 956 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:20,700 conservation organizations doing things 957 00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:22,770 like invasive species removal and 958 00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:25,980 habitat restoration and community 959 00:42:32,270 --> 00:42:30,180 education things of that nature I've 960 00:42:35,090 --> 00:42:32,280 donated money to a lot of organizations 961 00:42:37,250 --> 00:42:35,100 over the years to try and help them 962 00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:37,260 facilitate their actions even if I can't 963 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:39,540 be there to help them themselves so you 964 00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:42,890 know it's really important to me to 965 00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,080 emphasize that yes if your spirituality 966 00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:48,240 helps you become a better person that's 967 00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:52,260 awesome if your spirituality promotes 968 00:42:58,820 --> 00:42:56,250 you becoming a more responsible part of 969 00:43:00,920 --> 00:42:58,830 your entire community and not just your 970 00:43:03,530 --> 00:43:00,930 human community that's why I think 971 00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:03,540 you've leveled up to me one of the signs 972 00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,380 of an advanced practitioner is they want 973 00:43:11,690 --> 00:43:09,839 to give back 974 00:43:13,279 --> 00:43:11,700 much as possible it's not just about me 975 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:13,289 me me me me it's about that 976 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:15,690 interconnection does that make sense it 977 00:43:21,170 --> 00:43:18,690 does it does and stewardship seems like 978 00:43:22,959 --> 00:43:21,180 a natural component to this kind of 979 00:43:26,690 --> 00:43:22,969 stuff when you're in that mindset and 980 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:26,700 I'm just so interested in the minds of 981 00:43:32,359 --> 00:43:29,729 animals in my hope or suspicion would be 982 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:32,369 that to get better insights into their 983 00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:34,890 minds and logic and the way they think 984 00:43:39,979 --> 00:43:37,680 that this stuff might be able to be 985 00:43:43,309 --> 00:43:39,989 helpful and I guess I would ask if 986 00:43:45,499 --> 00:43:43,319 tapping into these Beastmaster entities 987 00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:45,509 or any of these animal magic practices 988 00:43:49,459 --> 00:43:47,369 have helped you in that regard are there 989 00:43:52,609 --> 00:43:49,469 insights or examples you could share 990 00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:52,619 that other people just might have no 991 00:43:56,989 --> 00:43:54,329 context for because they haven't done 992 00:44:01,819 --> 00:43:56,999 this kind of work that's kind of a tough 993 00:44:04,459 --> 00:44:01,829 question because again as a human being 994 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:04,469 in a human body with a human brain and 995 00:44:06,979 --> 00:44:06,450 consciousness and understanding of the 996 00:44:11,539 --> 00:44:06,989 world 997 00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:11,549 I'm very limited in how much I'm able to 998 00:44:16,999 --> 00:44:14,640 really understand about an animal's 999 00:44:18,829 --> 00:44:17,009 world even when I do meditations with 1000 00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:18,839 totems where they show me what it's like 1001 00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:22,079 to be that particular species it's still 1002 00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:24,150 filtered through that human 1003 00:44:30,829 --> 00:44:27,839 consciousness and conditioning and so 1004 00:44:32,650 --> 00:44:30,839 forth so I think what it's done for me 1005 00:44:35,989 --> 00:44:32,660 is helped me to learn to be more 1006 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:35,999 empathetic toward other beings and to 1007 00:44:43,009 --> 00:44:37,890 consider that they're beings that see 1008 00:44:49,099 --> 00:44:43,019 the world in ways that I don't I am NOT 1009 00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:49,109 a big fan of this whole thing of people 1010 00:44:53,299 --> 00:44:51,660 who claim that they can talk for animals 1011 00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:53,309 people who claim that they are animal 1012 00:45:00,859 --> 00:44:56,940 communicators I have a really tough time 1013 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:00,869 with that because I don't know what 1014 00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:03,450 they're basing things on besides vague 1015 00:45:09,259 --> 00:45:07,710 psychic powers it's presumptuous you 1016 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:09,269 know I don't know if they're paying 1017 00:45:12,739 --> 00:45:11,249 attention to the animal's behavior I 1018 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:12,749 don't know how much they know about the 1019 00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:15,170 animals that particular species 1020 00:45:22,339 --> 00:45:19,140 vocalizations I don't know how much they 1021 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:22,349 know about that species overall and 1022 00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:23,250 again 1023 00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:25,470 you know I've seen so many people who 1024 00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:26,940 really really want to communicate with 1025 00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:28,380 animals but they're coming from a very 1026 00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:35,510 human perspective so I I really hesitate 1027 00:45:42,290 --> 00:45:39,840 to say something along lines of yes my 1028 00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:42,300 spirituality has helped me to understand 1029 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:45,750 physical animals more currently sharing 1030 00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:47,490 the living room with me right now in my 1031 00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:50,040 studio as I sit here and speak with you 1032 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:54,180 is a twenty-something year old African 1033 00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:56,970 Grey parrot he belongs to my housemate 1034 00:46:02,720 --> 00:45:59,760 who owns this place she's only here 1035 00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:02,730 part-time right now I'm the caretaker 1036 00:46:08,030 --> 00:46:05,160 the place but she brought one of her 1037 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:08,040 african greys out here to keep me 1038 00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:09,690 company and so I could keep him company 1039 00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:12,630 and I've never really had experience 1040 00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:15,510 with birds before now did I go and talk 1041 00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:17,910 to the totem African Grey yeah I did 1042 00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:21,390 just because birds are tiny dinosaurs 1043 00:46:27,740 --> 00:46:23,730 and I tend to understand mammals better 1044 00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:27,750 and I think that experience of going and 1045 00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:31,380 talking to African Grey the totem helped 1046 00:46:36,250 --> 00:46:34,400 me to remind myself that there are 1047 00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:36,260 consciousnesses out there besides 1048 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:38,910 mammalian ones and that I really need to 1049 00:46:46,580 --> 00:46:43,050 open my mind to them and understand that 1050 00:46:49,580 --> 00:46:46,590 their perspectives and their priorities 1051 00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:49,590 are a bit different than what a lot of 1052 00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:53,670 mammals may be after but I think what 1053 00:47:01,400 --> 00:46:56,460 was more valuable to me in bolstering 1054 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:01,410 that was a reading up on African Grey 1055 00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:03,330 behavior from people who have been 1056 00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:04,680 living with them for years and years and 1057 00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:07,260 years and also just hanging out with 1058 00:47:13,370 --> 00:47:09,030 this particular bird and getting to know 1059 00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:13,380 his individual quirks and personality 1060 00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:14,300 and so forth 1061 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:17,520 so I think that meditation reminded me 1062 00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:21,210 to keep my options in my mindset open 1063 00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:24,960 but I don't think it gave me any super 1064 00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:28,710 amazing insights into you know this 1065 00:47:32,090 --> 00:47:30,780 particular birds once and needs that's 1066 00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:32,100 something that I had to learn on my own 1067 00:47:39,820 --> 00:47:36,750 and if he was having behavior issue 1068 00:47:42,830 --> 00:47:39,830 I would be more likely to take him to a 1069 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:42,840 parrot specialist as opposed to an 1070 00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:46,890 animal communicator right so again like 1071 00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:49,800 I said I think the spiritual part of my 1072 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:51,960 relationship with nature has a lot of 1073 00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:56,330 value but I tend to give it limitations 1074 00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:00,150 compared to you know each part of my 1075 00:48:06,140 --> 00:48:02,480 life has its own sort of bailiwick and 1076 00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:06,150 boundaries and so my spiritual stuff 1077 00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:09,720 tends to be more based on my personal 1078 00:48:17,150 --> 00:48:13,500 development and that includes reminding 1079 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:17,160 myself that I am just a teeny teeny 1080 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:19,140 teeny little part of a huge amazing 1081 00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:22,050 universe with all sorts of different 1082 00:48:29,110 --> 00:48:26,160 beings and places and so forth right on 1083 00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:29,120 it seems very clear that you're 1084 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:31,740 incredibly respectful and humble about 1085 00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:33,930 these kind of things and trying to keep 1086 00:48:37,580 --> 00:48:36,180 the ego out of it and another thing I'm 1087 00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:37,590 really interested in that was a chapter 1088 00:48:42,890 --> 00:48:39,780 in your Fang and fur 1089 00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:42,900 blood and bone book is familiars from 1090 00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:44,760 what I understand these these are often 1091 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:47,100 physical animals that a magician has a 1092 00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:48,570 strong connection to rather than a 1093 00:48:53,390 --> 00:48:50,910 spirit animal like us and we see this in 1094 00:48:55,220 --> 00:48:53,400 movies like a wizard using animals to 1095 00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:55,230 fetch something important or to act as 1096 00:49:00,170 --> 00:48:58,290 spies mm-hmm is there a real precedent 1097 00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,180 for that in these sorts of practices I 1098 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:02,880 think so yes it's not something that you 1099 00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:07,050 see so when I speak of a familiar and 1100 00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:09,540 also I want to add the caveat that I 1101 00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:12,420 have only actually had one familiar and 1102 00:49:18,020 --> 00:49:13,710 that's the one that I worked with while 1103 00:49:22,220 --> 00:49:18,030 I was working with that book a skink 1104 00:49:23,630 --> 00:49:22,230 right yeah she's a barrel skate and cute 1105 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:23,640 little lizard spent most of her time 1106 00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:26,010 hanging out under the sand but you know 1107 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:27,480 she came out when it was important she 1108 00:49:35,660 --> 00:49:32,250 liked me she's an introvert and so it's 1109 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:35,670 not just any animal that a magician or 1110 00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:38,570 pagan or which happens to own you know 1111 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:41,190 because I've had other pets and so forth 1112 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:44,690 but specifically it's an animal who 1113 00:49:50,330 --> 00:49:49,650 actively makes themselves a part of your 1114 00:49:52,730 --> 00:49:50,340 ritual 1115 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:52,740 practice and again you have to kind of 1116 00:49:58,430 --> 00:49:56,130 have some skepticism you know a healthy 1117 00:50:00,170 --> 00:49:58,440 little skepticism just because your cat 1118 00:50:01,550 --> 00:50:00,180 likes to jump up on the altar and knock 1119 00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:01,560 stuff off doesn't mean they're real 1120 00:50:08,330 --> 00:50:04,800 familiar but you can definitely tell 1121 00:50:10,220 --> 00:50:08,340 certain animals when you do rituals or 1122 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:10,230 spells or whatever they will actively 1123 00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:13,530 lend their energy to the proceedings you 1124 00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:15,830 can feel it you know it's there and that 1125 00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:20,910 is I think what makes a familiar I think 1126 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:23,900 the concept has been kind of muddied 1127 00:50:30,590 --> 00:50:27,210 because a lot of the information that we 1128 00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:30,600 have is honestly from the European witch 1129 00:50:35,330 --> 00:50:33,390 trials where you had inquisitors and 1130 00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:35,340 other people basically feeding 1131 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:38,310 information to their victims who were 1132 00:50:42,350 --> 00:50:39,930 basically as Catholic as they were a 1133 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:42,360 Protestant as they were in order to try 1134 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:45,570 and get a fake confession so you get you 1135 00:50:51,110 --> 00:50:47,730 know a witch hunter or Inquisitor or 1136 00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:51,120 whoever saying that cat that you have 1137 00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:53,910 it's it's a gift to you from Satan and 1138 00:50:59,480 --> 00:50:56,550 it runs errands for you and your witchy 1139 00:51:01,160 --> 00:50:59,490 friends and you know basically feeding 1140 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:01,170 all that information to people and 1141 00:51:05,180 --> 00:51:02,490 unfortunately I don't think a lot of 1142 00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:05,190 people understand the context under 1143 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:07,140 which that information about supposed 1144 00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,010 witchcraft 1145 00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:10,800 came from right and so again this is 1146 00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:13,500 something like totemism I basically had 1147 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:17,430 to recreate for myself based on the 1148 00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:19,650 experiences and resources that I had 1149 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:22,950 access to the thing that I found through 1150 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:24,690 my own experience is that it's not just 1151 00:51:30,830 --> 00:51:26,910 any animal it's an animal who very 1152 00:51:33,530 --> 00:51:30,840 specifically wants to be a part of your 1153 00:51:34,940 --> 00:51:33,540 workings and you can't really just 1154 00:51:36,530 --> 00:51:34,950 because you have an animal that you love 1155 00:51:38,990 --> 00:51:36,540 does not mean that they're automatically 1156 00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,000 going to be your familiar if I were to 1157 00:51:44,510 --> 00:51:42,000 ever to go back to actively practicing 1158 00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:44,520 magic again I'm not going to assume that 1159 00:51:49,010 --> 00:51:46,590 Liberty the African Grey parrot who's 1160 00:51:50,570 --> 00:51:49,020 sitting here looking at me with some 1161 00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:50,580 curiosity I'm not going to assume that 1162 00:51:56,660 --> 00:51:54,180 he's going to just step up and be a part 1163 00:51:59,390 --> 00:51:56,670 of what I'm doing right they kind of 1164 00:52:02,500 --> 00:51:59,400 choose you but as I wrote in the book 1165 00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:02,510 you know you can actually go into a 1166 00:52:07,450 --> 00:52:04,400 shelter or 1167 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:07,460 pet store or wherever else you happen to 1168 00:52:12,490 --> 00:52:09,890 be looking for you basically do a ritual 1169 00:52:14,740 --> 00:52:12,500 before you start the quest for a 1170 00:52:17,890 --> 00:52:14,750 familiar and you open yourself up to the 1171 00:52:19,870 --> 00:52:17,900 universe and say hey I'm ready help me 1172 00:52:22,270 --> 00:52:19,880 find that perfect animal who's looking 1173 00:52:24,580 --> 00:52:22,280 for me and that's how I found you know 1174 00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:24,590 am I familiar before that's really 1175 00:52:29,110 --> 00:52:26,390 interesting because you know I have two 1176 00:52:31,870 --> 00:52:29,120 cats in both times I went to the Humane 1177 00:52:34,330 --> 00:52:31,880 Society to pick one I kind of let them 1178 00:52:36,550 --> 00:52:34,340 pick me and both cats ended up putting 1179 00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:36,560 there at different times of course they 1180 00:52:39,790 --> 00:52:38,390 put their paw on the glass and I was 1181 00:52:41,050 --> 00:52:39,800 like that's the one we'll take that one 1182 00:52:43,810 --> 00:52:41,060 and I feel like I have a really strong 1183 00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:43,820 connection to both of them and you know 1184 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:47,030 I didn't really do anything magical on 1185 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:49,610 purpose necessarily but I think I was in 1186 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:52,490 the same frame of mind that I wanted an 1187 00:52:57,610 --> 00:52:55,490 animal to pick me and I think that's the 1188 00:53:00,280 --> 00:52:57,620 way to go about it exactly and I think 1189 00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:00,290 that's important to allow other species 1190 00:53:05,770 --> 00:53:03,200 to have agency whether that's dealing 1191 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:05,780 with individual domestic animals that 1192 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:07,370 you know we want to find a good home for 1193 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:12,890 or whether that trying to navigate our 1194 00:53:19,110 --> 00:53:16,730 very complicated relationships with wild 1195 00:53:23,830 --> 00:53:19,120 nature and the animals that live there 1196 00:53:25,450 --> 00:53:23,840 again whether it has been for ill intent 1197 00:53:27,460 --> 00:53:25,460 you know people justifying the 1198 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:27,470 slaughtering of large predators because 1199 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:29,690 they kill our livestock and therefore 1200 00:53:35,050 --> 00:53:32,330 they must be bad or whether it's for 1201 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:35,060 good intent but ends up being harmful 1202 00:53:41,740 --> 00:53:39,410 you know assuming that my pet Chihuahua 1203 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:41,750 must have the same food that I do 1204 00:53:46,750 --> 00:53:44,930 because I would never eat that dog food 1205 00:53:49,720 --> 00:53:46,760 and neither should he and you know so 1206 00:53:51,310 --> 00:53:49,730 you end up with a 15-pound Chihuahua 1207 00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:51,320 that looks like a sausage with little 1208 00:54:00,100 --> 00:53:55,910 eggs when we shove our human biases on 1209 00:54:03,070 --> 00:54:00,110 to other species it very frequently ends 1210 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:03,080 up being harmful to them and so when we 1211 00:54:08,350 --> 00:54:05,330 give them some level of agency with it 1212 00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:08,360 within reason you know then we stand to 1213 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:11,260 learn a lot more from them I mean I'm 1214 00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:13,490 preparing to build a chicken coop out 1215 00:54:17,110 --> 00:54:14,660 here because I want to have some 1216 00:54:18,130 --> 00:54:17,120 chickens and I'm going to have to deal 1217 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:18,140 with the fact that we haven't 1218 00:54:24,009 --> 00:54:20,410 of predators around here ranging from 1219 00:54:25,150 --> 00:54:24,019 stoats to raccoons to black bears that 1220 00:54:26,980 --> 00:54:25,160 I'm going to have to protect the 1221 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:26,990 chickens from and so I'm not going to 1222 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:30,410 give the raccoons enough agency to get 1223 00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:33,650 at my chickens but rather than shooting 1224 00:54:38,259 --> 00:54:36,380 the raccoons you know I'm just going to 1225 00:54:40,779 --> 00:54:38,269 work to make a stronger chicken coop if 1226 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:40,789 they happen to manage to get in and so I 1227 00:54:46,059 --> 00:54:43,970 allowed on that level of agency of this 1228 00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:46,069 is a being that I share my world with 1229 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:49,400 and I'm not going to forcibly change 1230 00:54:56,140 --> 00:54:53,690 that I'm just going to nudge a couple 1231 00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:56,150 things around so that my chickens are 1232 00:54:58,990 --> 00:54:57,760 safe does that make sense absolutely 1233 00:55:03,009 --> 00:54:59,000 absolutely 1234 00:55:04,329 --> 00:55:03,019 Wow well lupa I really think this kind 1235 00:55:07,059 --> 00:55:04,339 of brings us close to the finish line 1236 00:55:09,130 --> 00:55:07,069 I'm really glad you were willing to talk 1237 00:55:12,430 --> 00:55:09,140 to us about this stuff I love the idea 1238 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:12,440 of dissolving the barriers between man 1239 00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:14,930 and beast by whatever means necessary 1240 00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:17,990 and I guess I would also ask before we 1241 00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:21,200 go do remind the people of your work 1242 00:55:24,670 --> 00:55:23,119 that you do and where they can follow up 1243 00:55:26,470 --> 00:55:24,680 on this stuff if there are still hungry 1244 00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:26,480 for more or any other projects you got 1245 00:55:31,329 --> 00:55:28,880 in the works yeah thank you 1246 00:55:33,910 --> 00:55:31,339 it's been really awesome being here and 1247 00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:33,920 I really hope people enjoyed it I hope 1248 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:36,319 you are willing to be patient with me 1249 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:38,450 when I got kind of opinionated if you 1250 00:55:43,390 --> 00:55:39,890 like what I'm talking about you want to 1251 00:55:45,999 --> 00:55:43,400 find out more my website is the green 1252 00:55:48,999 --> 00:55:46,009 wolf com 1253 00:55:51,099 --> 00:55:49,009 not green wolf but the green wolf when I 1254 00:55:53,769 --> 00:55:51,109 registered the domain years ago someone 1255 00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:53,779 else already had green wolf so I did the 1256 00:55:58,509 --> 00:55:56,720 green wolf and I'm also all over the 1257 00:56:01,089 --> 00:55:58,519 place them on Facebook and Tumblr and 1258 00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:01,099 Instagram and all that you can find the 1259 00:56:04,740 --> 00:56:03,049 links on the website on the links 1260 00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:04,750 section of the website 1261 00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,240 my latest already completed project of 1262 00:56:13,930 --> 00:56:10,400 course is the Tarot of Bones which is a 1263 00:56:15,339 --> 00:56:13,940 full tarot deck plus a companion book so 1264 00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:15,349 you find information about that on the 1265 00:56:21,849 --> 00:56:18,710 website my current project is actually a 1266 00:56:23,859 --> 00:56:21,859 book called vulture culture 101 a book 1267 00:56:25,059 --> 00:56:23,869 for people who like dead things and if 1268 00:56:28,299 --> 00:56:25,069 you're interested in working with hides 1269 00:56:30,970 --> 00:56:28,309 and bones this is actually a book on the 1270 00:56:32,020 --> 00:56:30,980 people who are interested in hides and 1271 00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:32,030 bones as 1272 00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:34,670 elections and so forth how to find them 1273 00:56:38,770 --> 00:56:36,710 how to process them what to do with them 1274 00:56:41,260 --> 00:56:38,780 what's legal what's not what to do about 1275 00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:41,270 ethical conundrums and so forth and 1276 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:43,580 there there's actually an IndieGoGo 1277 00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:46,850 campaign starting on February 6 so if 1278 00:56:50,260 --> 00:56:48,590 you want to be a really early adopter of 1279 00:56:52,510 --> 00:56:50,270 the book which I want to have out later 1280 00:56:55,060 --> 00:56:52,520 this summer you can back the IndieGoGo 1281 00:56:56,770 --> 00:56:55,070 and help with initial printing costs and 1282 00:56:58,960 --> 00:56:56,780 so forth and get an early copy of the 1283 00:57:02,410 --> 00:56:58,970 book so there's more information about 1284 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:02,420 that project at vulture culture 101 1285 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:04,850 dot-com but like I said that you know 1286 00:57:09,220 --> 00:57:06,770 all things lupa can be found at the 1287 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:09,230 Green Wolf calm my emails there if you 1288 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:12,290 want to contact me chat ask questions 1289 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:14,930 etc feel free to get in touch awesome 1290 00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:17,690 well thanks again I definitely learned a 1291 00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:19,280 lot I really appreciate your 1292 00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:21,830 perspectives given how long you've put 1293 00:57:25,890 --> 00:57:24,110 your attention on these themes so great 1294 00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:25,900 work and take care of yourself out there 1295 00:57:30,010 --> 00:57:28,430 yeah and thank you so much for having me 1296 00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:30,020 I've really enjoyed it and it's really a 1297 00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:32,990 privilege thank you you got it good 1298 00:57:37,090 --> 00:57:35,630 times with lupa Green wolf everybody I 1299 00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:37,100 hope you found something to like about 1300 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:37,760 that 1301 00:57:42,580 --> 00:57:40,760 something interesting to chew on I sort 1302 00:57:45,220 --> 00:57:42,590 of figured it would be great to step 1303 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:45,230 away from the dense heady political kind 1304 00:57:50,020 --> 00:57:46,970 of stuff and toss in one of those random 1305 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:50,030 topics and I thought animal magic was a 1306 00:57:54,460 --> 00:57:52,610 decent one as a stoner who now works 1307 00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:54,470 from home I got these two cats I got 1308 00:57:58,830 --> 00:57:56,930 this dog now I got these fish that live 1309 00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:58,840 on the underside of our little indoor 1310 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:02,000 aquaponic garden and I'm just fascinated 1311 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:04,010 with observing all of them trying to 1312 00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:06,290 figure out what they're thinking and I 1313 00:58:10,330 --> 00:58:08,510 just find it crazy that someone wouldn't 1314 00:58:11,860 --> 00:58:10,340 think these animals are conscious so 1315 00:58:14,380 --> 00:58:11,870 that they don't have emotions and 1316 00:58:15,970 --> 00:58:14,390 decision-making abilities so I thought 1317 00:58:17,650 --> 00:58:15,980 maybe we could explore getting some 1318 00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:17,660 insight there since a person who's 1319 00:58:21,970 --> 00:58:19,760 knowledgeable and animal magic should 1320 00:58:24,850 --> 00:58:21,980 have a deeper understanding perhaps of 1321 00:58:26,590 --> 00:58:24,860 animals in general and I think Lupe's 1322 00:58:29,710 --> 00:58:26,600 shared what she could in that regard 1323 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:29,720 also the concept of overarching animal 1324 00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:31,610 Beastmaster spirits is pretty 1325 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:33,920 interesting too I got room in my reality 1326 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:37,010 model for that but I did try a few 1327 00:58:40,210 --> 00:58:38,930 meditations trying to connect with the 1328 00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:40,220 spirit animal too 1329 00:58:44,770 --> 00:58:43,310 why not see what happens and it's just 1330 00:58:45,730 --> 00:58:44,780 tough with these things because I don't 1331 00:58:47,890 --> 00:58:45,740 know my 1332 00:58:49,780 --> 00:58:47,900 mind well enough to know if I just 1333 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:49,790 projected something in there filled in 1334 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:52,490 the blank if an animal came to mind that 1335 00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:54,410 was random or if there's something 1336 00:59:00,310 --> 00:58:57,200 deeper there but out of my meditation 1337 00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:00,320 exploration came the gorilla or gorilla 1338 00:59:04,810 --> 00:59:02,510 as lupa would say and I don't 1339 00:59:06,460 --> 00:59:04,820 particularly resonate with gorillas I 1340 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:06,470 don't spend a lot of time thinking about 1341 00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:08,930 gorilla gorilla does not take up a lot 1342 00:59:14,070 --> 00:59:11,930 of real estate in my mind but maybe I 1343 00:59:17,500 --> 00:59:14,080 just need to do it a little bit more 1344 00:59:19,660 --> 00:59:17,510 also today was a bit of a rare show and 1345 00:59:21,730 --> 00:59:19,670 that lupa has obviously changed her mind 1346 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:21,740 a bit when it comes to animal magic that 1347 00:59:26,380 --> 00:59:24,410 is fine of course and I probably should 1348 00:59:27,940 --> 00:59:26,390 have digested more recent work and I 1349 00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:27,950 might have picked up on that vibe if I 1350 00:59:33,370 --> 00:59:31,130 did but I dug into her early book Fang 1351 00:59:34,930 --> 00:59:33,380 and fur blood and bone a primal guide to 1352 00:59:38,020 --> 00:59:34,940 animal magic because it was the most 1353 00:59:40,780 --> 00:59:38,030 all-encompassing her more recent work is 1354 00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:40,790 focused on one art form like skull 1355 00:59:45,820 --> 00:59:43,970 screen or the Tarot of Bones but it's a 1356 00:59:48,670 --> 00:59:45,830 fair point that a person can change 1357 00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:48,680 their mind on things in over a decade's 1358 00:59:53,830 --> 00:59:51,710 time but of course I dedicate a lot of 1359 00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:53,840 thought to the path I want to navigate 1360 00:59:58,300 --> 00:59:55,850 through a conversation so if I'm 1361 01:00:00,160 --> 00:59:58,310 bringing up something that's maybe a 6 1362 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:00,170 on the weird scale and she says she 1363 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:02,330 might think that it's too far-fetched I 1364 01:00:07,060 --> 01:00:04,490 don't really have a game plan for 1365 01:00:09,940 --> 01:00:07,070 pivoting away for more and more 1366 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:09,950 out-there stuff it's all good it's kind 1367 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:11,690 of funny and I'm sure you can hear it in 1368 01:00:16,540 --> 01:00:13,930 my voice a few times in the interview 1369 01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:16,550 but I guess one of these points was 1370 01:00:21,310 --> 01:00:19,609 about overtaking of an animal now I 1371 01:00:23,980 --> 01:00:21,320 don't think that's too far-fetched to 1372 01:00:26,859 --> 01:00:23,990 project your consciousness into a falcon 1373 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:26,869 let's say if a person can invoke demons 1374 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:29,330 or undergo possession why couldn't an 1375 01:00:33,820 --> 01:00:31,250 animal be possessed by a skilled 1376 01:00:35,650 --> 01:00:33,830 consciousness projector I guess you 1377 01:00:37,900 --> 01:00:35,660 don't really need it if we have remote 1378 01:00:39,820 --> 01:00:37,910 viewing you don't need to warg into a 1379 01:00:42,910 --> 01:00:39,830 hawk when you can just project your mind 1380 01:00:44,770 --> 01:00:42,920 out there I guess like a cloud remote 1381 01:00:46,930 --> 01:00:44,780 viewing is a weird thing clearly they're 1382 01:00:49,599 --> 01:00:46,940 not sending their optic nerve to the 1383 01:00:51,550 --> 01:00:49,609 location so it's like are we just seeing 1384 01:00:53,170 --> 01:00:51,560 with our third eye what can we see with 1385 01:00:55,930 --> 01:00:53,180 our third eye what do we really need our 1386 01:00:58,090 --> 01:00:55,940 two eyes for I don't know I think remote 1387 01:00:59,530 --> 01:00:58,100 viewing brings up a lot of interesting 1388 01:01:01,690 --> 01:00:59,540 and curious questions 1389 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:01,700 since we have data that shows no this is 1390 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:03,890 a real thing we just don't know how or 1391 01:01:10,590 --> 01:01:06,650 why but remote viewing is one of those 1392 01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:10,600 ideas that I think is on the spectrum or 1393 01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:13,040 maybe that's the wrong phrase to use but 1394 01:01:19,090 --> 01:01:16,550 in the realm of possibility so I respect 1395 01:01:21,730 --> 01:01:19,100 her opinion and her experience but it is 1396 01:01:23,650 --> 01:01:21,740 a fairly rare thing to have a guest 1397 01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:23,660 who's gotten a lot more sobering on the 1398 01:01:27,790 --> 01:01:25,760 topics in their wheelhouse I didn't 1399 01:01:29,490 --> 01:01:27,800 expect her to have moved away so much 1400 01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:29,500 from what she had written in the past 1401 01:01:34,990 --> 01:01:32,690 but it happens in the Plus show it came 1402 01:01:37,150 --> 01:01:35,000 out a lot more because my questions got 1403 01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:37,160 a lot weirder it's not a bad thing but 1404 01:01:40,690 --> 01:01:39,110 it was a little unexpected if he didn't 1405 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:40,700 hear the Plus show some of the things I 1406 01:01:44,890 --> 01:01:43,370 threw at her were shape-shifting and 1407 01:01:47,170 --> 01:01:44,900 consciousness projection like I 1408 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:47,180 mentioned the idea of other kin 1409 01:01:52,930 --> 01:01:49,210 communities people who think they are 1410 01:01:55,870 --> 01:01:52,940 part animal or the reincarnation has 1411 01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:55,880 some residue from their last past life 1412 01:02:01,540 --> 01:01:58,250 that was an animal interesting stuff but 1413 01:02:03,790 --> 01:02:01,550 then also animal parts and skins and 1414 01:02:06,130 --> 01:02:03,800 magical ritual animal sacrifice and 1415 01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:06,140 magic skull screen and the Tarot of 1416 01:02:11,140 --> 01:02:08,990 Bones and connecting with plant spirits 1417 01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:11,150 versus animals they even asked her how 1418 01:02:17,380 --> 01:02:14,540 to better facilitate conscious 1419 01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:17,390 communication between me and Miss Mary 1420 01:02:21,550 --> 01:02:19,940 Jane you don't want to just burn it all 1421 01:02:24,430 --> 01:02:21,560 the time sometimes you want to talk to 1422 01:02:26,590 --> 01:02:24,440 it but on these later topics especially 1423 01:02:28,330 --> 01:02:26,600 when it came to animal skins and 1424 01:02:31,660 --> 01:02:28,340 materials I think she knows quite a bit 1425 01:02:34,660 --> 01:02:31,670 and I find the idea of energy inside of 1426 01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:34,670 an animal hide for example really 1427 01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:37,610 interesting dr. Steven Skinner actually 1428 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:39,290 highlighted that when he talked about 1429 01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:42,290 following the grimoires to a tee you 1430 01:02:47,260 --> 01:02:43,910 need to get the material that they tell 1431 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:47,270 you to get you can't substitute animal 1432 01:02:52,750 --> 01:02:49,730 parts for plastic because the Energy's 1433 01:02:55,150 --> 01:02:52,760 not there so I think it was great to try 1434 01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:55,160 to at least take a swing and an animal 1435 01:03:00,520 --> 01:02:57,410 centric show through the lens of magic I 1436 01:03:02,770 --> 01:03:00,530 hope you agree of course Western society 1437 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:02,780 has done a great job of stripping plants 1438 01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:04,850 and animals from our worldly experienced 1439 01:03:08,770 --> 01:03:06,890 except for the solitary trees and 1440 01:03:10,900 --> 01:03:08,780 asphalt prisons that line the grocery 1441 01:03:12,490 --> 01:03:10,910 store parking lot and the birds hovering 1442 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:12,500 overhead looking for something to land 1443 01:03:15,580 --> 01:03:12,890 on the 1444 01:03:17,470 --> 01:03:15,590 isn't lined with spikes so it's probably 1445 01:03:19,630 --> 01:03:17,480 a good thing to pay tribute to that 1446 01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:19,640 animal kingdom once in a while maybe 1447 01:03:24,330 --> 01:03:21,260 down the line we'll do it again with a 1448 01:03:27,490 --> 01:03:24,340 more indigenous perspective perhaps 1449 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:27,500 either way big things to lupa for giving 1450 01:03:32,290 --> 01:03:30,050 us her time and for keeping it real do 1451 01:03:34,930 --> 01:03:32,300 check out her books and website if you 1452 01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:34,940 have an interest in these areas I know 1453 01:03:39,550 --> 01:03:37,310 she came from a more personal journey 1454 01:03:41,050 --> 01:03:39,560 type of perspective but I do think 1455 01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:41,060 there's a lot of lost knowledge in this 1456 01:03:47,050 --> 01:03:43,280 realm so I like digging into it whenever 1457 01:03:49,450 --> 01:03:47,060 we can find an angle to do so alright so 1458 01:03:51,940 --> 01:03:49,460 we took a bit of a walk down a path less 1459 01:03:53,950 --> 01:03:51,950 traveled today and then coming up next 1460 01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:53,960 is a hell of a guest way more in that 1461 01:03:59,260 --> 01:03:56,810 conspiratorial wheelhouse I consider him 1462 01:04:01,630 --> 01:03:59,270 a well respected name in the alternative 1463 01:04:03,790 --> 01:04:01,640 community one of the most respected that 1464 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:03,800 hasn't been on THC yet I like his work a 1465 01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:06,650 lot I got some resistance to some 1466 01:04:11,590 --> 01:04:09,440 aspects of it but he's a great guy and 1467 01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:11,600 I'm lucky to be adding them to the long 1468 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:13,760 list of great names that have graced the 1469 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:16,010 higher side with their presence I'm sure 1470 01:04:20,110 --> 01:04:18,050 you're gonna dig it but that's all I'm 1471 01:04:22,510 --> 01:04:20,120 gonna say about it except that is show 1472 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:22,520 out well so I'll see you then your move 1473 01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:24,770 animal spirits spirit guides and beasts 1474 01:04:28,990 --> 01:04:26,960 master entities of the Otherworld 1475 01:04:38,810 --> 01:04:29,000 your 1476 01:04:38,820 --> 01:04:53,220 [Music] 1477 01:04:59,870 --> 01:04:55,380 and you can come and see 1478 01:05:06,130 --> 01:04:59,880 [Music] 1479 01:05:36,780 --> 01:05:28,670 I'm down son 1480 01:05:46,890 --> 01:05:46,740 [Music] 1481 01:05:49,780 --> 01:05:46,900 [Applause] 1482 01:06:06,680 --> 01:05:49,790 [Music] 1483 01:06:31,660 --> 01:06:18,710 I do 1484 01:06:49,620 --> 01:06:34,830 but don't make me wanna change my 1485 01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:51,870 switch on 1486 01:06:56,180 --> 01:06:54,640 [Music] 1487 01:06:58,810 --> 01:06:56,190 story this 1488 01:07:08,890 --> 01:07:00,730 [Music] 1489 01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:08,900 please don't please seems to work it all 1490 01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:10,310 envy you 1491 01:07:29,290 --> 01:07:14,240 please don't change it all for me